HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE PALEY CENTER PREMIERE Q&A
Featuring director Jay Oliva, voice director Andrea Romano, actor David Selby (Commissioner Gordon), and moderator Gary Miereanu.
GARY MIEREANU: Was it at all intimidating to pick up this book and try to make it into (gestures to screen) this?
JAY OLIVA: Hell, yes! It was very intimidating! It's Frank Miller's work. When I first read this, I was eleven years old, and so it totally changed the way I looked at Batman. And my whole mantra for doing this was trying to stay true to the material...but I didn't want to do a motion comic. I might as well just have Frank Miller read the comic to the camera, if I wanted that. So I wanted to make it as close to a movie as we could, and have the motivations, and try to elaborate on some scenes. But most scenes stay true to Frank Miller's original intent.
GM: So, what's the favorite scene for each of you?
ANDREA ROMANO: You know, Gary, there are some moments in this film that.. you work on them so far in advance of them being finished. We recorded this well over a year ago, initially. There's a little moment at the top that I want to talk about. Which is, clearly Bruce Wayne is trying to find his way in the world. He's retired, he's living in the bottom of a bottle of very expensive scotch, no doubt. And he's got one friend in the world besides Alfred, who is Commissioner Gordon. They meet, and they are having drinks in some very expensive restaurant or bar, and then Commissioner Gordon makes the mistake of mentioning Jason [Todd]. And Bruce Wayne gets up and leaves, and he walks outside. And there's that image of the moth to flame. There's a moth buzzing around the light, and it is such a beautiful image. It's like [Bruce] can't resist. He cannot leave it. He must get involved. That's my favorite scene, and it has no dialogue! (Laughter.) It has nothing to do with voice-over work. I just love that image! It's a beautiful image. And then there's a time later in the piece when there's a bunch of moths around it, and that begins the big ending.
JO: My favorite scene has to do with Andrea's voice direction. It's a scene where Carrie first says [her name]. Batman says “What's your name?” And she says, “Carrie. Carrie Kelley.” It was funny because I had no idea what I was going to do in that sequence, but Andrea was able to get this performance out of Ariel, and it was just awesome. So we storyboarded to the acting, and I told my board artist, “What I want her to do is say 'Carrie,' but she looks away on 'Carrie Kelley.'” She's ashamed of who she is, ashamed of her past. But then when she looks back forward, she's like, “I'm Robin. This is what I'm proud of, this is I will be—if you want me to.”
AR: It's a beautiful moment.
JO: It's a great change for the character.
DAVID SELBY: Favorite moment? I don't know—I just kept thinking, “Welcome to Mean Streets!” (Big laugh.) I was just wowed...seeing it on the big screen like this. There's that moment in there when Gordon is talking about Roosevelt. And that, to me, is the moral question that we all have to answer at some point. There was always that scuttlebutt, wasn't there? About Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor.
AR: “Did he know,” you mean?
DS: And what did we need as a country, at that time, to commit as much as we committed back then? ...I find that it really makes you think about what it takes to get by the talking heads who are saying, “I'm okay, you're okay.” And what kind of tough decisions somebody has to make. And perhaps we don't want to know everything, when those decisions are made. I found it a very difficult moment. And that's what Frank Miller did, and I think he's still doing it. ...In the election, and the issues of today, I look back and say: “What would Bruce Wayne do?” (Laughter.)
GM: You guys saw it with a live audience for the first time.
DS: Yeah. It was wonderful!
GM: And you three have different parts of the process in making the film. Was there anything that surprised you?
AR: Not surprised, but pleased me. That they had the same reaction that I did, which was like, “YES!” (Applause.)
GM: Jay, was there a joke left out, or a joke that went over bigger than you thought?
JO: The thing is, I've seen this a million times because of the editing process. And we screened it for the crew about a month ago. It's so hard for me to tell what the audience is going to feel. Because when I make these films, I try to put myself into the place of the audience. So, I have to step back and not be the director, and look and think, “Do I have all of the beats I need? Can the audience empathize with my characters? Are they following along? Is there anything that I'm leaving out? Am I missing an emotional point?” And I try to cover that as much as I can.
You'll notice, there's some scenes in there where I added stuff. Bruce Wayne at his parents' wake. That's not in the comic. In the book, there were no more flashbacks [after the first issue]. And I told my crew, I wanted the flashbacks to be like post-traumatic syndrome. So the way that Bruce Wayne copes with his parents' deaths was by becoming Batman. And by kicking ass and taking names, he became normal—in a sense. But in the past ten years, he's stopped, and because it's been ten years, it's just getting worse and worse. And so, when he finally loses to the Mutant Leader, I thought to myself, “This is an opportunity to do one last, odd flashback.” And I pitched it to Bruce Timm. I said, “Bruce, I know you probably won't like this, but I want to do this Kubrick kind of thing. I want him to be alone. Both his parents are dead, and he's alone.” And there's that shot where we pan past the mourners who are kind of like ghosts. And we just focus on him. I like the symmetry of that shot. We cross-cut to [Batman in the present] in the middle of the Batcave. And he's trying to find the strength: “Should I go on? I just lost.” I thought that would be a great moment: to go back [with a] flashback to when he felt most alone...
GM: We're going to do a panel with just Jay, where he picks apart all of the between-the-panel moments. (Laughter.) ...So, Andrea, you went full-spectrum on this one. We have the seventy-year-old David Selby playing seventy-year-old Commissioner Gordon. We have thirteen-year-old Ariel Winters playing what I imagine to be fifteen-year-old Carrie Kelley. We've got Rob Paulsen saying “Mommy” in ways that scare me. (Laughter.)
AR: There are thirty-three actors in this piece. And probably thirty actors are doing three characters, at least! When I was given it, and saw that we weren't going to eliminate any of those characters, I thought “How can I make this something that I can do?” Because that's really intimidating. ...So we did the casting of the main characters, and I said, “Okay. How are we going to fill this in...?” And so, I went to my friends! And you'll recognize in there, Pinky and the Brain. And I made it real simple: I cast Rob Paulsen as “Rob.” (Laughter.) It truly shows how versatile these actors are. (She proceeds to read the entire cast list, to continuous applause.) And then...for two words...Michael Emerson [as The Joker]. And then, I show up in this piece. May I do an impression of myself? “No! Don't! Mmph!” (Laughter.) So, Rob Paulsen says “Mommy” to me. An enormous cast! Absolutely remarkable, trying to cast that many actors.
GM: And we won't mention some of their names, but there's more of them in Part Two!
AR: Part Two is great.
JO: ...For me, it was awesome. Because everybody in the sound booth is in character! Like Pinky and the Brain talking to each other, and Mrs. Krabappel. And they're just yelling at each other, and I'm like “Oh my God, it's my childhood!” (Laughter.)
GM: David, you found a kinship with Commissioner Gordon, didn't you?
DS: I feel like I've been welcomed into a whole new family. It's just so special! ...My son, when I told him, I'd been asked and I'm going to do The Dark Knight. And he said, “Oh! What role?” I said, “The commissioner.” (With hushed awe.) “You're playing Gordon?” (Laughter.) I said, “Yeah!” He said, “Dad!” So he said, “Well, go downstairs to the basement,” because all his comics are still there. (Laughter and applause.) I keep trying to get all the stuff out. He said, “Go through the books.” ...He's got 'em all filed. I picked out the first three, and there they are! And we couldn't have given him a better gift than his dad's playing Commissioner Gordon! ...And I must say, I feel very nice.
AR: You're so good in this piece. (Applause.)
DS: Gordon's a good cop, isn't he? (Laughter.)
FAN QUESTION: My formal introduction to The Dark Knight Returns was an episode of the '90s Batman cartoon. (Applause.) “Legends of the Dark Knight,” which was done in the style of the Frank Miller book, with Kevin Michael Richardson as the Mutant Leader and Michael Ironside as Batman. I was curious if that was, for you, the first time you has encountered [the book], and if that subconsciously influenced the casting of Gary Anthony Williams and Peter Weller?
AR: The answer to that is, that was my first introduction to it, and because I remember nothing...(Laughter.) That did not influence this piece. It's kind of like those jokes about how dementia is like being able to hide your own Easter eggs, because you don't know where you left them. (Laughter.) There was this slight memory of, “This is somehow familiar.” But the truth of it is, since we first recorded this piece, I've probably directed sixty pieces. I'm not exaggerating. Episodes of series, home videos, video games, sessions of various things. I truly don't remember. When we got this piece back and screened it for ADR, it was like “Wow! He's good! That came out well!” So, no, one did not influence the other.
FAN QUESTION: There's so many takes on Batman, whether Batman is the mask or Bruce is the mask. Is this presentation of The Dark Knight Returns ... [one version or the other]?
AR: [Each] actor who plays Batman has a different take on that. For some of them, the character is Batman and Bruce Wayne is an affectation. For others, they're Bruce Wayne and then they put on the cape and cowl and become Batman. It's not necessary for me to know the answer to that question for each actor, as long as it fits into the whole piece and it makes sense. But it's an interesting question, because they all look at it differently. They all have a different opinion as to whether they are more comfortable as Bruce Wayne, or more comfortable as Batman. What is their base? And you'd have to ask Peter Weller. Do you have an opinion about that?
JO: What's funny is that, the way Peter played it, I think he was more comfortable as Batman.
AR: I think so, too. That's our opinion, but you'd have to ask the actor.
FAN QUESTION: Have you had any communication with Frank Miller?
GM: We're waiting for his opinion right now. (Laughter.) He's had a copy delivered to him and we haven't heard back yet. But I'm sure we will. He's cool with Peter Weller, and we expect good things. You'll hear from him eventually.
FAN QUESTION: Did Kevin Conroy not wish to be in The Dark Knight Returns?
AR: Kevin would have been terrific, too. He really would have been very, very good. And there's bits of Batman Beyond in this. Do you guys see it, as well? The modern version of the street gangs, and stuff like that. ...And Kevin did a beautiful job of playing Bruce Wayne at eighty years old at that point. So I think Kevin could have done it. But the decision was made way above me that they wanted a fresh, new cast. Everybody brand new. They wanted the style to be a bit different, they wanted the whole thing to be a bit different. But I think Kevin would have given a valid and, no doubt, wonderful performance as well.
But you know, Peter sounds like he's had so much life experience. There's that gravel in the voice. ...He's just lived. But then, he really brings it when he's had it. And then there's also that realization: he cannot go on, he cannot succeed unless he defeats the Mutant Leader. He cannot live with the defeat he has experienced, and the only way he's gonna bring these gangs under his control is to, in public, defeat the Mutant Leader. And then he just brings it.
I think we did, minimum, four hours of ADR with Peter on this piece. And you guys watch a scene and see a big old fight scene. I look at those big old fight scenes and think, that's eight pages of “Huh! Ugh! Ooh!” (Laughter.) And it can't just be “Huh! Ugh! Ooh!” It's gotta be thirty-seven different versions of that! And then there's things Jay or Bruce Timm will have to point out to me. Like, “...That's where the Leader's hand got raked against Batman's chest. That's gotta be a really big 'Aaaaaaugh' pain. It can't just be 'Ugh,' It's gotta be 'Aaaaaaugh.' Because later we see him bleed. We've gotta help the audience see what happened there.”
JO: ...In response to the Kevin Conroy and Peter Weller question: I love Kevin Conroy. To me, he will always be Batman. But one of the things I thought when I heard that Peter Weller had accepted doing the role [was]... “Man, this is like a double rainbow!” Think about it. RoboCop was influenced so much by The Dark Knight Returns. And so the fact that Peter Weller, who played RoboCop, is now playing Batman...almost doing the same scenes, it was like full-circle. In the recording sessions, I'd be leaning to Bruce, like, “This is so cool!” (Laughter.) Have you guys picked up the '80s vibe? ...The music is very John Carpenter. I tried to make sure it had that all the way through it, so having Peter Weller is just amazing.
FAN QUESTION: How did the very different nature of the book's first and second half influence the direction?
JO: When you tackle a film like this, you have to know what you want. ...One of the things I wanted to do was have themes. For example, I wanted water to be a theme that you see throughout. So you have the baptism of him, coming back into the rain. When you get to Part Two, which I can't mention, you'll start to see water becoming a thematic thing for him. Another thematic thing is the color red. There's the sequence where his parents die, and there's the shot of pearls falling into camera, but the red is so vibrant. So, the red is almost like a trigger to his post-traumatic syndrome. When you see the red, you'll sometimes see that kind of flashback.
You'll notice, the way I did the introduction of Joe Chill is different from the book. Just because we had just finished Year One, and I wanted to do something very different. Because they had done Year One exactly like how it was done in all the books, where Bruce Wayne is underneath the lamplight. And you've seen the iconic image of his parents, underneath the lamp. And I turned to Bruce, and said “Do you mind to do something different here?” And he said, “Yeah, go ahead.” ...And so, I pitched this idea where Joe Chill comes out of the light; his face is just blown out. He's faceless. So he's in the light, but the birth of Batman is in the darkness. So, here's a little Easter egg for you guys: ...In that shot, where his parents are dead on the ground and the blood is coalescing with the rain coming in. And as the camera pulls out, you see Bruce standing in the middle. And if you look at his shadow, it's a Batman cape that's being cast. ...To me, the birth of Batman should be in Crime Alley, as opposed to underneath the lamplight. So, a little spin on something that's very iconic.
So, doing these films, I wanted themes that you see carried on in Part Two. A lot of motivations will come to fruition in Part Two. And in terms of story, Part One is great because it's a nice, personal, small story. It's all about Bruce. It's not about too much of the media, or Gotham. It's about how one man can make a difference. Everyone's given all their rights away to the government and there's all these sociopolitical statements throughout. But all it takes is this one man to be a powder keg, to basically ignite and change the outlook of the whole city. So that's what you see in Part One. And Part Two is the repercussions, and it just goes nuts. That's all I can say.
FAN QUESTION: Comic books are storyboards by themselves. How do you keep this movie fresh?
JO: Like I said, I didn't just want to do a motion comic. ...I picked all the key scenes that I remembered. I wanted to make it so that when you watched the film, you would remember when you were a kid and you read it. “This is what I experienced.” Now, if you actually go home and take up the graphic novel and look, shot for shot, there are some things that are very similar. But there are other things that, as a filmmaker, I need to have the flow. I need to have the transitions from one scene to another be organic. I don't just want to be staccato, where it's just “let's cut to this, just because it was in the comic.” ...Like I said, I saw the Batman: The Animated Series that they did. That was the first thing that I watched. And I was like, “Okay. That's cool. I'm not gonna do that.” (Laughter.)
